A Podcast | Shawn Johnson

Pete Neubig: Welcome back everybody. And as promised, I got my good buddy Shawn Johnson here. Shawn, thanks so much for joining the podcast, buddy.

Shawn Johnson: Hey, man, I am honored to be here. Thanks for having me, Pete.

Pete Neubig: So we go back a long way and you have a similar but even more experienced journey than I did when I built Empire and sold Empire. So can you kind of tell the listeners, you know, a brief overview of your journey, how you started your PM firm and then the home vault merger and then the, the exit? I think people would be real interested to hear how you got there and where you started from.

Shawn Johnson: Well, I don't know that it's more experienced than yours, Pete, but it is a similar but different path. So. Yeah. So I started management company in little old Farmington, New Mexico. We became the, you know, the big player pretty quick, grew pretty quick. And we decided Let's let's branch out and have a second branch in Flagstaff, Arizona, which was about 4.5 hours away, which is a completely different beast to to manage that far away. But it grew and it was highly profitable. And then, you know, we really focused. My wife and I really focused on how do we make this business the best asset that it can be and not have to rely upon us to be there every minute of every day? And it got to a point where my staff was like, why are you even here? Like, it runs better when you're gone. So. And I think I took it as a compliment. You know what I mean? So yeah. Thank you for letting us know. Okay, cool. That's great. You know, so months go by and we're like, you know what? We can't just do this. There's bigger, right? There's more purpose in all of this. So we decided with amongst some other NARPM members to do a national merger. We merged.

Pete Neubig: Let's pause there before that real quick.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: What did you do before property management?

Shawn Johnson: Oh, I was a helicopter pilot and flying professionally, as a pilot came with, you know, mountains of school loans, student loan debt. We bought our first business while I was a pilot, which was a full service car wash and had a baby at the same time. So I don't know what it is about us and having babies at the same time. We start businesses. But when we started a property management business, we had our second baby.

Pete Neubig: What made you go into property management from piloting and car wash? Because so normally I hear, well, I bought so many properties and I couldn't or I was doing real estate and everybody kept asking me to. So this is a little bit of a different path. So, it's really interesting to me. So tell me a little bit about that. So you buy a car wash. So you want it to be a business owner?

Shawn Johnson: Yep. We were entrepreneurial, um, very entrepreneurial. And, uh, saw the, uh, the, the freedom that you get from that. But when I was flying helicopters, I had the best schedule. I worked the seven on, and then I was off for seven, and then I'd go back for seven nights, and then I was off for seven again. And it provided a lot of time, even when I was working. You know, they call EMS earned money sleeping, not emergency medical services. So you can earn money while you sleep. You know, obviously you're still trading time for money, but, um, the schedule was really good. So we ran that car wash while I was still working. You know, I we had the benefits and all that stuff. And Kristen, my wife was running it full time. Like, that was the job, right. And, um, why we got into property or property management really was, uh, because I had bought a house when I was 20, and sold it when I was 22, and it had this big pop of money and I was like, wow, this is real estate's awesome, you know? And obviously that's not how it always works out, right? It's kind of a rare thing.

Pete Neubig: I got a different story, but yeah.

Shawn Johnson: And so I set this goal. I remember setting this goal. I was like, I want to own three rental properties. By the time I'm 27 and 27 rolls up, and it was the most depressing birthday of my life. Because I did not achieve owning three rental properties I'd sold that piece of property way beyond or way before that, and I didn't achieve that. But we're like, let's be business owners. And that was great. But that's where we got our master's degree was in that car wash is 54 w-2s.

Pete Neubig: Whoa.

Shawn Johnson: Out the first year, I mean high turnover. These are the same employees that you get from, you know, the local Taco Bell, if you will not. And they just really turn. They turn fast. So we tasted property, we tasted real estate, and we were moving back to where I grew up because we were, you know, like I said, we we started to have kids. My wife was pregnant with our second. So we moved back to Farmington, New Mexico. And, my then sister-in-law, she's not my sister in law now, but she said, you know what? There's terrible property managers here. You guys should look at opening a management firm and see if that's something you want to do. Kristen had already had a real estate license. She was a real estate paralegal for a large investment firm. And so she kind of understood that she actually oversaw property managers on like a national level, on a management side. And she's like, oh, that, you know, property manager. That's a that's a rough job. They're getting yelled at and dealing with maintenance. And, you know, but all the things we saw the opportunity in the marketplace and it was right, you know, there was there was not great property management locally at the time. And I mean, the the one thing you only had to do to succeed was just answer your phone, you know, and it's so common. Still, unfortunately.

Pete Neubig: I hate to say it, I was going to say, I hate to say that things haven't really changed very much since then. Yeah.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. So that was really how we got into management. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: And how many properties did you get into that small town of Farmington?

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. So Farmington had we had 620 doors here. All single family. Nothing bigger than a fourplex.

Pete Neubig: So for you guys that are in these big markets and you can't get to those amount of doors, shame on you. Right?

Shawn Johnson: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was funny. There's about 45,000 people here, um, in in our main metro area and about 100,000 in all, you know, the tri city area, they call it. Yeah. And, you know, you get a pretty good market share. But the reality is, is that we're not competing against other management companies. We're competing against the do it yourselfers.

Pete Neubig: That's right. So, you get to a pretty decent size and you decide, okay, I want to go and become a broker in a different state. And I want to go ahead and create another market. Just just real high level. How do you break into that market? Did you hire people first? Did you just do marketing or was it enough where you can drive there? Like, what was the reasoning? Or just tell me a little bit about like going to another market?

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. So we did it on a kind of a family basis there. So my sister in law, sir, Kristen's sister, lived in Flagstaff and she wanted to get into property management. We saw the opportunity there and very similar to Farmington, small town. I mean, like people are still printing applications online or not even online. You got to stop in the office and get the word document, you know, printed to do an application, that kind of stuff. And so it was it was fairly easy to break into that. She wasn't terribly business development minded. She was more operational minded. So the business development side was tough from a distance because, you know, property management is so relational. And so we struggled a little bit there. But they were high revenue, high profit properties. And it didn't take very many to really do well in Flagstaff.

Pete Neubig: Okay. So now you're running two, you're running basically, you know, you got you got two cities or two markets and your team says, hey, you guys are basically creating problems for us. Like, just go away now. Tell me, because that is really the dream of lots of property managers where  the business can operate. I always say a definition of a business is a profitable enterprise that runs and grows without you. So what are.

Shawn Johnson: Otherwise? It's kind of a liability, right?

Pete Neubig: Otherwise a liability. So give me like 1 or 2 things that you implemented that was allowed, allowed you to kind of exit stage left. And we're going to talk more about what you're doing today and how you're helping people get there. But just kind of just give us kind of a high level of, of 1 or 2 things that you did that you're like, yeah, that was that was really paramount in us being able to, you know, basically exit the business.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah, I would say number one is the people you have to have exceptional people that care, uh, on a very high level. And how do we get to that? Well, that starts with the company culture. And then then it goes into a hiring practice.

Pete Neubig: Why give you thumbs down on a video. And the video? He's giving a bunch of thumbs down.

Shawn Johnson: I'm not even moving. So anyway, if you're watching.

Pete Neubig: These are thumbs ups because I agree everything what you're saying here. So you so you basically hired the right people. You put them in the right seats. Um, and then how did you get them rowing in the right direction?

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. You have to have a vision alignment, if you will. So obviously we had core values in a vision and then we obviously had a one year, a three year and a five year target. And we were always pushing towards that direction. So when we, when we say we stepped away, like working 1 or 2 hours a week is what the reality was. And in that work of 1 or 2 hours is, can we focus on making sure the team is rowing in the right direction? We're still growing and we're still profitable. It's not me getting in the weeds. It's not me answering owner phone calls or dealing with a maintenance item. Those are the things that are working in instead of on. So it was a purely on working on the business' business.

Pete Neubig: Basically focusing on team and vision.

Shawn Johnson: Exactly.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. Now, you did this before LeadSimple, APTLY and all these automation that came out, is that correct?

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, processes are a major component to this. So in order to, you know, in order to have the people function, if you will, or you know, that people asset aspect of the business, you got to have the, the processes and the policies that your staff follows. And when we did it, we first put it all into processes, in Google documents, Google spreadsheets, you know what I mean? And then it then it evolved into, I think our first legitimate software on the process side was Process Street. And then it went to LeadSimple in time, you know. So it was an evolution.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. But I guess the main takeaway is, you were able to step away having processes that they weren't there wasn't there was very little automation, but you were still able to step away because you had those documented process. And so for those of you that are like analysis paralysis, I need to get into the LeadSimple. I need to get into APTLY, I need to I need to have this automation. You actually don't at first. You just need to know exactly what your processes are and find the people that can follow them and then make them better.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. And I would actually I'm of the mindset and absolutely doesn't matter what the platform is so long as what you're doing is utilized.

Pete Neubig: Uh, how many times you buy software and you don't use it, right.

Shawn Johnson: Oh, yeah. I mean, we all do it, right? And then you get this monthly fee and it and it serves no purpose. It's really a sunk cost.

Pete Neubig: All right. So now let's fast forward the team gives you that kind of like hey you know you're just causing more challenges. So just do your 1 to 2 hours and be the cheerleader for us. So I know you personally and I know your entrepreneurial and I know you get bored and you're just visionary guy. So is that when you said, hey, let's start creating a national brand, is that kind of what your thought was? Was that the original vision or like when you first started or kind of tell me about like your vision, how it started. And like now it's like now I want to go national. Like, We're all gonna go run through the door together, right? Like.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah, exactly. I remember like when we first started the management company, I remember Kris and I having this conversation. If we could just get to 100 doors, you know, it'll provide a good living. It's not going to be mountain moving, but it'll provide a good living and we'll be happy. Right? It's fine. It's a good place to raise a family. Well, we got bored with that, like. No, because I think that we're put. Look here. This is the way I put it. If you want to live a lifestyle that has intention, and if you don't live a lifestyle with intention, then you'll live a lifestyle with default. So things are just going to happen. So if I just went to 100 doors and I don't think I'm focusing on the right. Let's let's see what we can actually build this thing to. And so it morphed pretty quick. All right. Now there's no limit. Let's see how big we could get it into this marketplace. We get to 620. And we felt like we were probably at the max of our market share. Um, and you know, we probably settled at that at a year and a half, two years, you know what I mean? And then it became the focus of like, how do we just work on this business and not not work in it at all? And then, you know, we meet Tony Cline from from NARPM and, uh, through, through NARPM. And I was like, hey, Tony. Hey, you want to go ride side by sides in Moab, Utah and just have a good time for the weekend and, uh, you know, cut it up. And and I had two I had two razors at the time, so I was like, I'll bring both of them up. You could drive one. I'll drive one. We'll just have a good old time, right? I remember his wife came. Pam and Kristen was there. And we're. We're driving in after a long day at night. Time to go eat in Moab. And I was like, hey, Tony, wouldn't it be cool if all the guys in our mastermind decided to form a national brand? Uh, and originally it was like, how do we pool all those resources where we can, uh, you know, have the best practices everywhere and make a, you know, a stellar company. And then it morphed into, why don't we just merge? Why don't we actually just do a national brand where we do acquisitions and grow it and scale it up? And that's kind of how that that morphed into a bigger vision, if you will. You know. And and then when it was home Vault, you know, I was I was a CEO there and we were hoping to get to thousands and thousands of doors, you know, and I think our highest peak was 1200. And then it was managing, you know, executive personalities and executive, um, Opinions were very tough on which way to, you know, to take the company.

Pete Neubig: It really is difficult for business owners to go into a corporate structure.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. Really hard.

Pete Neubig: Really hard. And I'm sure it was hard for you and I and everybody. People know my story. It was it was, you know, almost depressing for me. So now your CEO of Humboldt, and you have all these entrepreneurs that, you know, kind of merged in, in with you, but now they want to run things their own way, I'm guessing. And they, they have, you know, big opinions. And now they feel like they have just as much ownership, even though if I'm looking if I'm doing the math 1200 units and you have 620 in 1 market and a couple hundred in another market, you're like 60, 70% of of the of the merger.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah, I think it was 77 or 72 or 77% was our revenue share.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. So that's the vision now. And you got guys to buy in because you're a visionary and you get people to follow you. Uh, how long did home Run for?

Shawn Johnson: It was about two and a half. You know, we I think we hit right at the three year mark before we exited.

Pete Neubig: And how many markets did you guys end up getting into?

Shawn Johnson: Seven markets.

Pete Neubig: Seven markets. Okay. And did it just become real difficult with all the personalities? So you guys decided, hey, this probably isn't working out. We can exit and we can probably get a good value for our exit.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. So, you know, I would say like, probably the single motivator, you know, was dysfunction at a board level. And to try and solve the like, for instance, I don't know if there's a book called the I don't remember. It's written by Patrick Lencioni.

Pete Neubig: Five Dysfunctions of a Team.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. Five dysfunctions of a team. I can remember the author's name, but not the book. But anyway, I remember I called the board meeting, and we all flew into Albuquerque, New Mexico, and we hashed out basically that workbook for like three days straight to solve these issues. This was in November before we sold, and a lot of it was solved. Like we got on the same page. We started rowing a little bit better in the right directions, but we still had a high level salary problem. So, you know, trying to provide the financial means for six executives is not easy.

Pete Neubig: On 1200 units. Yeah.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. Not easy. And, you know, and we had a very lean staff and we were productive, but, um, yeah, it just it just came...

Pete Neubig: Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it it came to a head that we really needed to change things up at a board level if we're going to do anything positive. And we had already gotten, you know, several offers. There was a few big companies that were reaching out to us at that time. We didn't reach out to anybody. And they're like, hey, we're looking to acquire. We'd love to acquire you guys because I obviously in seven markets, that was a bigger.

Pete Neubig: Oh yeah. That makes you more valuable for sure.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, we entertain those. I mean, I was never going to say no to any of those meetings. You know what I mean? Let's talk about it. And finally reached one that was satisfactory to the board and, and decided let's, you know, I think the best thing for the business and our employees and our clients was to sell at the time.

Pete Neubig: And what year was that when you guys exited?

Shawn Johnson: So that was, what what year is it now? 2024? 2021, I believe is when we exited.

Pete Neubig: 21, you exited. So you dealt with all the Covid nonsense.

Shawn Johnson: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, woo hoo! Yee hee!

Pete Neubig: Yeah. And then you sold out. And then, did you take a position with the company that purchased you, or did you decide to retire for a little bit? Like, I know, from talking to you, like you literally could retire if you decided to. So what did you end up doing after? 

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. So that's a great question. So I spent eight months as the director of operations and implementation. So on their national merger side, we basically that boiled down to doing software conversions and unifying the acquisitions into the same softwares all day, every day. It was miserable.

Pete Neubig: I would say, that that's a high C in a disc profile and you're kind of a high I from what I recall. So yeah, that had to be kind of like, uh, fingers on a chalkboard for you. I would love that job personally, but I know as a visionary.

Shawn Johnson: You'd be good at it, too. And I think I was pretty good at it. Where I had a lot of strengths there is they gave me the, um, the liberty to build a team. And so I had some high, which that's.

Pete Neubig: What you that's your. Yeah. You're really good at that.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. So I brought in some great people that had previous experience doing similar things and was making it happen. But, you know, not my ideal job. And essentially eight months goes by and I, I basically quit rich, if you will. I didn't need the job. The paycheck wasn't important to me. And I hate absolutely hate trading dollars for time. I don't that like gets under my skin. I think in my I'm thinking to myself like, this is, you know, time is so finite that if I'm trading dollars for that, it's just like, oh, it turns my stomach.

Pete Neubig: Especially if you're not doing something that you just love. Right? And I always felt, if you're in the wrong seat, you can do a good job for about 6 to 8 months, and then after that, you're just not. It's just not what you're good at innately. Right. So like like, for example, like me, I like processes. But if you put me as a sales person, I can probably do it for a short period of time. And I could probably do it very well for a short period of time. But after about six months, it's going to burn me out because every day I'm going to lose energy. It doesn't give me energy, but you give me a if you say, hey, go, let's go create this process. Let's whiteboard something out. I can go for 12 hours, man. I'm still got I still got energy. Right? So it's like so they kind of put this square peg in a round hole. And so you're like, all right. So you decide to punch out after about a year, about eight months to a year?

Shawn Johnson: Eight months. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Eight months. All right. Just so you know, I lasted longer than you, I made it 18 months before we decided to part ways. All right, so now you you do that. And so now it's around 2022, I'm guessing. I know you retired for a little bit, and now you're coming back, what are you creating now? And how are you helping people now?

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. So I really I took a break and really wanted to kind of...

Pete Neubig: You want another helicopter I remember that.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. I've got a couple on order. So. But, yeah, I really wanted to focus. Like, how can I provide the most value and serve our industry that I do love. I love the property management industry. How do I provide the highest level of value to them as possible? And I really spent months, months and months really thinking through that. And I guess, you know, I distilled it down to like my own transformation. I look back about 12, 13 years ago and I look at myself and think, crap, I was paycheck to paycheck. Poor, a brand new family. The company's not profitable. And then I transition to making it profitable. Buying a ton of cash, flowing assets, not trading time for money anymore. And how do I how do I frame something where I can help fellow property managers go through a similar transition or a transformation in their lives. And so I've really focused on that now. Does that mean, like, there's a one size fits all? No there's not. As a matter of fact, there's so many ways to slice this pie. But the the single factors I have distilled it down to is really the money mindset that most of Americans have. We live in the most prosperous country in the world, and yet so many are living above their means, living paycheck to paycheck. And that does not exclude, property owner or business owners. As a matter of fact, it's no different. Business owners are in the same boat as non business owners.

Pete Neubig: I would say sometimes it's worse because when you have a W-2 and you, you do your 401 K and you get some health insurance. I know a lot of business owners that don't have any money for retirement and they don't have any health insurance, and the business is running them versus them running the business.

Shawn Johnson: 100%, 100%. And I always felt like if I'm having to run the business, and that's the only source of income I have. And being an aviation guy is like, that's a dangerous place to be in. You know, your old business partner, Steve, he knows dang well and good why he has multiple engines on that airplane. He flies long trips long distances with lots of people's lives. Souls on board when they call it in the aviation world that, you know, things are at at risk and high, high stakes. Why do we have multiple engines? Because we want to go. If one goes out, then we're still flying. If two goes out, we're still flying. You know what I mean? And I wanted I wanted to, uh, I really shifted my mindset to having a single income was just high risk for my family and a legacy to leave behind in any wealth generation. I just see that in fellow business owners, fellow Americans, if you will, that just, it's it's not a it's not a happy place to be for a long period of time, living paycheck to paycheck without, with always having to trade my labor for money.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. Also, you know, I talked to a lot of people in like five years ago. They had 150 doors. And today they have 150 doors.

Shawn Johnson: Right.

Pete Neubig: And if you're not growing your business and it's not running without you, you're not adding any more you know, valuation to your business, right? If you're going from 150 to 300 to 600 to 900, your business is going to be worth more than it is at 900 than it is at 150. Right? But if you can't grow yourself, businesses only grow to the ability of the CEO. And so if if I'm a property manager, I've always been a property manager. And I don't elevate myself to learn how to hire people, to learn how to build processes, to learn how to systemize. It's going to be really hard for that person to grow. Yeah.

Shawn Johnson: Absolutely. And Peter Principle to the max. Right. We're only as good as our own incompetence. And so as a business owner, we should be doing whatever it takes to level up. And I love the 1% rule. Like I want to be 1% progressively better tomorrow than I was today. And I think that has to apply. But I do think we get comfortable, we get complacent, and we accept the status quo, if you will, with our lives, with our business, whatever the case may be.

Pete Neubig: So what is your what is your new business called today?

Shawn Johnson: Well, it's Independence Capital. And it's really not necessarily a name thing here, but more of a program. So we take we take people that are property management company owners who want to have a similar transition transformation in their lives. Can I go from where I am financially today and go to where I actually want to be? And we lay a framework, a ground, you know. I guess I would call it like a financial framework step by step, that is going to take you to the mindsets of where you were, to where you have to be in order to generate wealth. And then we have several things inside that program, like, how do I get the maximum amount of profit for the value that I'm providing for my clients? How do I buy real estate from my client? So when they're ready to sell, I can actually be the solution to that purchase instead of them going to the open market and trying to sell that property to somebody else.

Pete Neubig: It's a huge advantage that we have that very few of us take advantage of.

Shawn Johnson: Oh, it's so sad. Property management is the gateway drug of great real estate investing. Like, we get to see all the intricacies of a property to see what the maintenance is, what the you know, what the outstanding items are, how the tenants are, get them while it's tenant occupied, you know what I mean? It's just I love buying real estate from clients.

Pete Neubig: And I hate to admit this to you, but, um. Before I started Empire, I owned 31 homes at the time, and I had bought many more before that. And apartment complexes. I built Empire from 2012 to 2019. Guess how many homes I bought in that seven year period?

Shawn Johnson: Uh, don't tell me. Zero.

Pete Neubig: I'm going to tell you. Zero. When I sold the business and I was working for mine, I ended up buying six properties that year.

Shawn Johnson: Wow. Bought it with the cash you got from the business? Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Bought it from the cash I got from the business. Yeah. But more importantly, I was starting to look again. And those six properties all came from mine. They all came from owners that were not happy with their property. And just like you said, I was able to look at the inspection reports. I was able to look at, you know, our past leasing. I was able to look at, you know, how the owners, what maintenance was done. And I bought those six properties site on scene, because I seen them there in my... I didn't have to go drive there and say, oh, the house is still there. I knew the house intimately because we managed it. And so I was able to buy a great deal. And I'll tell you, I bought a four pack that I bought for 535. And the day I bought it was valued at 655, $700,000 the day I bought them. Today they're worth over 800,000. I bought 20.

Shawn Johnson: So awesome. Yeah. And it's so funny. I get people tell me all the time, like, I feel guilty for wanting to buy this house from a client. I don't feel like it's ethical, and I'm like...

Pete Neubig: Nah, you're helping them.

Shawn Johnson: You are helping them. As a matter of fact, you are the biggest easy button they can have. Why? Because they don't have to go prep that house to go sell. They don't have to kick out a tenant who's already in place. And they're probably willing to owner-finance the stinking thing to get rid of it because they don't want it anymore.

Pete Neubig: And they want the cash. They get the cash flow by doing an owner-finance. So they actually make more money selling it to you than they did when they owned it, with all the maintenance issues.

Shawn Johnson: That's right. Yeah. That's right.

Pete Neubig: So when you're looking for clients, though, let me ask you this, because a lot of stuff that you're talking to me about I just hear mindset. Mindset. Mindset. Am I off base there. Like do you have to have the right mindset to do what you did and to do what you want to do, right? Like, if I don't have the right mindset, I don't have a growth mindset, or I have a value that I want to get to in my living experiences, um, that may not be a good person. Some people like Bart Sturzl, good buddy of mine out in Austin, Texas, got 300 units happier than a pig in molasses.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Right. And so he would not be a good client potentially for you, because he's got a level and he's happy with that level. Or is he? Or is anybody a good client for you? Come talk to me a little bit about mindset and what's, you know, uh, how that growth mindset is.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. I think the biggest thing for me is willingness to learn and willingness to gain knowledge and the willingness to to gain wisdom. So I don't care what the door count is, it doesn't matter to me. As a matter of fact, I think you could be extremely profitable at 50 doors. But every door needs to be producing income, right? It needs to be profitable. And I often think that the small portfolio owner, if you will, is really shortsighted in the sense that I just need to keep my rates really cheap and competitive so I can grow bigger. And most of the time the small operator can be the most value to the client. So therefore they should be charging more because they do more for the client. Now, I know there's a that's a scarcity mindset to be like, I need to charge more when I only have 50 doors. So I can't do that. I can't charge more, right? That's scarcity. But my point is, is like the ideal client to me is like, we will work on the mindset shifts, like what's the behaviors and the understandings of purpose? The purpose of money. We'll work through that ourselves. Let me let me hit on that a little bit, Pete, because I think it's important. Like there's there's a purpose of money that people view. So the poor view money as one thing. It's to pay my bills. So I get a paycheck and I need to pay my bills for it. That's what the poor view money is, the middle class. The purpose of money for the middle class is to pay their bills on time so they can maintain their credit, so they can buy crap. They can't afford to pay cash for that. They think the people around them actually care about. So it's image, right? That's the middle class. And it'll keep them in the middle class because they're always in debt with trinkets, doodads, whatever you want to call it. But the rich, they use their money to make more money. Right. So so let's give an example. The middle class. I want a new car. So they go down and they go to the, you know, the car dealership and they buy it on credit and they negotiate on payment. I can afford that payment, you know. And that's how their lifestyle is. And the worst thing is, is when they get a pay increase, whether their business starts making more money, or if they get a pay raise at their job, their lifestyle increases with it. So they never really get out of the trap. But the rich, they just they invest the money and they never touch that dollar that was originally invested. But that original dollar starts making babies, and those babies make babies. But that that first dollar is never touched. The babies are the ones that they buy their things. So you said I'm, you know, buying a helicopter. I'm not buying a helicopter on debt. I'm using my investments that cash flow daily to buy the helicopter. Does that make sense?

Pete Neubig: Makes a lot of sense.

Shawn Johnson: So that's that's a mindset shift I think that is an example of the program. Like this is how you go from being where you are today. Stuck in a rut, Frustrated to see other property management company owners succeed. So how do I put the pieces together to actually elevate my wealth?

Pete Neubig: Typically, how long does the program last? Is this like, I mean, it's a lifetime and I get that. But like you actually you have, I'm sure, a start a middle and kind of like, okay, now you can kind of do it on your own, like I taught you the tools. How long does that typically last? Yeah.

Shawn Johnson: So it's eight. Eight weeks. And there are...

Pete Neubig: That's it?

Shawn Johnson: Yeah, yeah. So we lay that entire foundation.

Pete Neubig: I think you say eight months or eight years. Eight weeks.

Shawn Johnson: Well, here's the thing is, like, it's eight weeks of the content, but it's a lifetime of support. Like, we we have a community that is private. It's application. Only when you get in there, you now get to work with other people that are in the same program as you are, and they probably are going to be in, you know, varied level of stages in their life. But their experience, uh, gets to help your experience. My experience helps you know everybody out. So we all we, you know, we raise all those ships together.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. And then you you if you join, if you join the program, you get to talk to people who have leveled up. Right? So what's the old saying? You're the average of the five people you want to hang out with the most. And so you start hanging out with people who've leveled up, and eventually you're just going to level up. It just happens.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. Unless those other five people suck.

Pete Neubig: Well, they have leveled up, so hopefully.

Shawn Johnson: They leveled up and you didn't.

Pete Neubig: Hopefully they leveled up. Yeah. Well, look, I mean, look, I mean, you know, I don't hang out with the five guys that I went to grade school with anymore. You know, I've we've outgrown each other or we still see each other, but I don't hang out with them anymore. Right now, I hang out with other business owners like yourself. People who have gotten people who are where I want to be. I'll give you a great example. When I wanted to become an Ironman triathlete, um, I had never done any kind of distance like that. And so who would I start hanging out with? Guys have done multiple Ironman triathlons. They just like doing one was like no big deal. Guys. Done five, ten, 20 of them. And all of a sudden my mindset switched from, can I do one? To how fast can I complete one? And so I think that's kind of something that you're talking about with the mindset as you go through your program, you know, can I do this? And it's like, no, now I know I can do this. How now? How much how further can I take it?

Shawn Johnson: Yeah, exactly. And accelerate it. Right? I mean, like these are things that I've learned over the course of 15 years, but it shouldn't have taken me that long. I didn't have a program to go through, you know what I mean? And how do we accelerate this for fellow property management company owners to take their asset, their business, make it extremely profitable, and then to take that money and accelerate it into other cash flowing assets. So we have more engines on the airplane than just the one.

Pete Neubig: I love it. All right, man, I can talk to you all day about this. And this is probably like a four part, NARPM podcast, but we're going to take a quick commercial break, and then I'm going to put you in the lightning round. I know it sounds spooky.

Shawn Johnson: Let's do it.

Pete Neubig: All right. We'll be right back, everybody.

Pete Neubig: All right, we're back with Shawn Johnson. Shawn, we're going to put you in a lightning round. Are you ready?

Shawn Johnson: I am ready. Go!

Pete Neubig: All right, so let's make believe. Let's put your property manager hat back on. And what PM software did you use?

Shawn Johnson: Uh, originally started at AppFolio, and then it went to Rentvine. Whoop, whoop. That's the best out there.

Pete Neubig: That's the best. What was your organizational structure when you had just the two cities?

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. So it originally started as portfolio based and then it went to departmental, and then we shifted to hybrid. And we found that that was the best method for our structure.

Pete Neubig: Give me an example of hybrid. Yeah. So like some portfolio and an accounting. So give me an example of that.

Shawn Johnson: Uh, accounting was all back office, so that's more of a port or a departmental mindset. But we would have, we wanted the owner relationships. That was important. So our property managers would manage the relationships, really. And then, I think maintenance was, let me, if I remember right. Maintenance was departmentalized and accounting was departmentalized, and everything else was basically portfolio based.

Pete Neubig: Got it.

Shawn Johnson: In a pod structure. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Yep. Sounds about right. Do you use virtual assistants?

Shawn Johnson: Oh, every chance I can get.

Pete Neubig: Did you have BDMs or were you the BDM?

Shawn Johnson: Yeah, we did have BDMs. I still feel like that's the toughest position to hire in property management. But, yeah, we did have BDMs.

Pete Neubig: What's one piece of advice you'd give someone just starting out in the PM business?

Shawn Johnson: Know your value. You are only worth what you think you are worth. So if you provide a high level value to a client and you don't charge for it, then you think that value is worth nothing. So I would say know your value.

Pete Neubig: Wise words. Does pineapple belong on pizza?

Shawn Johnson: I don't want divorced, so I'm going to say yes.

Pete Neubig: All right. What's your fast food go to?

Shawn Johnson: I absolutely despise fast food, but if I'm going to have to eat fast food, uh. Firehouse.

Pete Neubig: Subs. All right. What was your first job?

Shawn Johnson: First j-o-b? Oh. Sears and Roebuck men's department. That was the first official one, anyway.

Pete Neubig: You know you're old when your first job is Sears. I don't even think young audience even knows what Sears is.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. What is Sears?

Pete Neubig: If you could have dinner with anyone alive, who would it be?

Shawn Johnson: Cody Sanchez.

Pete Neubig: Who's that?

Shawn Johnson: Uh, she's a social media influencer. And her niche in that space is buying mom and pop run of the mill, boring businesses and buying lots of them.

Pete Neubig: Interesting, I love it.

Shawn Johnson: I love it. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: What's a what's a book you would recommend?

Shawn Johnson: Oh, man, that is a tough one. I am an avid business book reader. Um, probably the one at the top of the mind is The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham.

Pete Neubig: I love him. He's the best.

Shawn Johnson: Oh, man. I read that probably eight times and took thorough notebooks of notes.

Pete Neubig: I got to see him live. Man, he's a great he's a great presenter as well.

Shawn Johnson: Now go think. Think you'll thank me later.

Pete Neubig: What Disney character do you most associate with?

Shawn Johnson: Well, now that Marvel is Disney. Uh, I would say I'm most intrigued with Iron Man. I love the I was going to.

Pete Neubig: I was going yo put you at Tony Stark. I was going to.

Shawn Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. That visionary thinking and very techie. I love that stuff. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: All right. Cats or dogs? Which one do you prefer?

Shawn Johnson: Uh, sometimes neither, but if I have to choose, I like dogs.

Pete Neubig: All right, man. You're off the lightning round, Shawn.

Shawn Johnson: Whoo! That wasn't so bad.

Pete Neubig: Uh, not bad at all. How can how can people can contact you?

Shawn Johnson: Man, you could go to my website, which is Shawnaustinjohnson.com, which is s-h-a-w-n, the correct way to spell Shawn. Gotta have those spiky opinions. Or my email is shawn@icpmrentsmart.com.

Pete Neubig: Give me that one more time Shawn.

Shawn Johnson: Independence capital, I-c-p-m. So independence capital property management rentsmart.com.

Pete Neubig: Nice. And if you listen to this and you have not joined NARPM yet, shame on you. Call them (800) 732-3452. And every time I say this, I have to, like, put my glasses on and I lied. It's (807) 823-452. I need to make this font bigger. Or make it easy. Go to narpm.org. And if you are in the market looking for help remote team, go to Vpmsolutions.com and you can access over, I think we have over 40,000 profiles looking to work in the real estate industry. We have free training. That's industry specific training. We even have Rentvine training now on the platform. And we got some AppFolio training on the platform. Just dropped today as we're recording this. All right Shawn, thanks so much for being here. All right everybody, we'll see you next time.