A Podcast | Chris Picciurro:

Pete Neubig: [00:00:05] Welcome back, everybody. Thanks for being here at the Northam podcast. I have my good buddy, Chris Pecoraro. Say it right, Chris. Always say your name. Do I say you? Is it or.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:00:18] Picciurro. But, you know, Pete, I've been called a lot worse.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:00:21] I'm sure you have. So Chris Picciurro with Teaching tax flow. Chris been a good buddy of mine, actually has done my taxes over the last few years. And so I do appreciate that. And he's done taxes for lots of NAPO members. And Chris has been. Chris, you spent over 20 plus years working extensively with real estate investors and entrepreneurs. And so I'm going to get right into it. What are some of the tax implications based on some of the different entity structures? Is one better than the other?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:00:50] Well, first of all, thank you very much for having me on. I appreciate it. Hello. Um, hopefully many of you I've met before. And if not, thanks for tuning in. And the when we talk about entity structure, what our goal is, is to legally and ethically reduce the tax you pay in your lifetime. And one of the things that we have to consider and one misconception is that not all income is taxed the same. So you might receive $100,000 worth of income and depending on what type of entity you have, you could be taxed differently on that income. So if we want to start off from the most basic structure would be a sole proprietor. A sole proprietor is going to let's assume they have $100,000 of income after all deductions. They're going to pay tax on that, a federal tax, if they're lucky, if they're unlucky enough to live in a state with a state tax, they're going to pay tax on that. And then they're going to pay what's called self-employment tax, which is goes into the Social Security and Medicare fund. If you create I think you mentioned an LLC. So if you an LLC stands for limited liability company, if I had a dollar every time I heard limited liability corporation, I don't know, I might not be on this podcast. I might just be Bahamas.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:02:08] Sipping Mai tais. I get it.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:02:11] So so if you form an LLC, we like to call it LLC. It's like a Play-Doh entity, but a single member LLC. One of the biggest misconceptions out there is that about about single member LLC. So a single member LLC for federal tax purposes is a disregarded entity. That means it's taxed exactly the same as a sole proprietor. You don't receive any additional tax deductions just for forming an LLC. You also don't miss out on tax deductions if you don't form an LLC. So think about that. That sole proprietor and single member LLC is one in the same. So you're going to pay tax advantage of starting a business or owning a rental property is that you pay tax on your net income, not your gross income. Like someone that receives a W-2. So single member LLC, same as a sole proprietor. The difference is, is that they receive liability protection or asset protection. Again, I'm not an attorney, so I want to put that caveat out there, but that's the advantage of forming that LLC. Um, with a multi-member LLC, that means you have more than one person coming together. And they are what are called members of the LLC. A multi-member LLC is taxed by default as a partnership for federal tax purposes. So one thing to consider is, is that if you're a multi-member LLC, a single member, LLC or self-employed. That the let's take self-employed out of it. If you form an LLC from a federal tax perspective, either a single member or multi member, the LLC, from a federal tax perspective, perspective is not taxed. The profit and loss from the LLC flows onto your personal tax return, so there's no real tax advantage to that. I'm sorry.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:03:58] Is that in the form of a K-1 statement?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:04:00] Chris Yes. So a K-1 is a form that's attached to a multi member LLC.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:04:08] Do you get one if you're a single member LLC or no, you don't. You don't generate one for single member LLC.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:04:14] Correct. But you do not generate AK1 for a single member LLC since it's a disregarded entity. If a single member LLC owns a business, it gets reported on schedule C, If it gets if it owns rental property, it gets reported on schedule E of your personal return. Now, there's a caveat, which is a good bridge to jump over and to the S corporation. So that so what happened is. Well, let's let's let's step away from Oscorp for a moment. We have a good handle on LLCs. And depending on we're going to talk from a federal tax level because different states have different franchise and excise taxes. The LLCs make a lot of sense because they're pretty simple, especially, you know, with if you own a business and especially if you're a single member LLC, if you're a multi member LLC that owns rental property, well, net rental income is taxed completely differently than if you are an active in property management, Right? Right. Because it's passive income. So. I'm going to move over to a C corporation before you do.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:05:21] That, quick question. When you have an LLC, a lot of times the form will ask you like, how is this going to be? Is this going to be an S Corp, LLC, a C Corp, LLC or Partnership LLC? Is there any main difference on how I what I select for, for for that on the form?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:05:38] So when you and that's a great question when you when you file that in you're going to want to put what you think your anticipated entity type is going to be your entity type is really figured out when you file that first tax return. So from a single member LLC, multi member LLC, either one of those multi member LLCs taxed as a partnership. Then again, the profit and loss just flows to your personal tax return. So if you're if you're forming an LLC, single member, LLC is going to it's going to be a disregarded entity. Yeah, yeah. It's a pass through. Multi-member is the nice part about a multi-member LLC. Not to start, not to go from advanced or to basic, from basic to advanced with a multi-member LLC, it does allow you some more flexibility when you're shifting income between members. So let's say you and I form an LLC, you're drinking the my ties. You know, you own 50% and I own 50%, but I'm out doing all the work I can. Then I can take 80% of the profit. But you still own 50% of the LLC. So that that multi-member LLC gives us flexibility. Now that flexibility and how the the profit and loss are allocated and the ownership percentages, that's all determined in what's called an operating agreement.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:06:54] So and that's where we'll let the attorneys kind of answer it from there. But so let's talk about C Corp and S Corp.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:07:01] Absolutely. So a C corporation, if you form a corporation based on the federal tax laws the way they are right now, that corporation is an entity separate from yourself and it's taxed separately than yourself. So the profit from the corporation doesn't flow on your personal tax return. A C corp does not issue AK1 to its owners. The C Corp, though, is going to pay a tax of 21% on the federal level on whatever net income is is retained into the C Corp. And that's why you're going to hear people say, well, you're double taxed on that, that income, because if a C Corp has a profit of $20,000 and pays you a dividend of $20,000, the C Corp doesn't receive a deduction for that dividend and you're paying tax on that dividend. So a C corporation, they're not very popular anymore. The the reason you would you know, there's reasons you would be a C corporation there's some advantages coming be it you want a fiscal year end or you want to you want to really control the amount of income that that flows on your personal return. So there are some reasons to be a C corporation, but they're pretty rare now with the birth of S corporations, which is a good segue to the our last one we're going to talk about when you think about an S corporation, these are also stands for sexy because I can't tell you how many times people say, oh, should I be an S corp? Oh, gosh, you know, the S corporation is a hybrid entity. So if a C corporation and a multi-member or single member LLC had a baby, it would be an S corporation.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:08:39] Okay. So the S corporation has some attributes of a corp, but it also has attributes of a partnership because the profit flows onto AK1. So what goes on at K one? Okay. The the the S corporation is an election that you make. If so, you don't necessarily form an S corporation. You either form an LLC or you form a C corp. And either one of those options you can then elect to be taxed as an S corporation. So an S corporation is a tax election that you make to be taxed as this hybrid entity. Now, I think you asked which one is best. And, you know, every every CPA is going to say it depends. Right. But here's the situation with the S Corp, the biggest tax advantage of an S corp. Is that profits after you pay yourself what's called a reasonable salary. So reasonable compensation. Those profits are not subject to that 15.3% self-employment tax. When you're. So let me give you that example of $100,000. You have $100,000 of the profit. Let's say you're single, you're going to pay tax on that $100,000, your federal tax and self-employment tax. If the S Corp has $100,000 of the profit it has to pay the owner what's called a reasonable compensation. So let's say it pays the owner $40,000 of reasonable compensation on a W-2. That $40,000 on a W-2. Well, that's going to be subject to payroll taxes, which is the same as a self-employment tax. The $60,000 of remaining profit is not subject to self-employment tax of 15%. 15.3%. So in that fact pattern, there's a potential $9,000 tax savings by being an S corporation.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:10:32] So would I take that money as a distribution then? That that extra 60?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:10:36] Absolutely. You could take it as a distribution. Okay. Now, when you have me back on the podcast in the future, which we just determined throughout there, now we can start talking.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:10:46] About you get me pick.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:10:49] Well, don't show any pictures of me then, but we're going to we can start diving into these entities in more detail and we're going to talk about that in a little bit. But there are rules. So with an S corporation, you do have to pay yourself what's called a reasonable salary. And we have, you know, in our private practice and a lot of other CPAs, we have tools to allow you to figure out what what reasonable compensation is. And the S corp doesn't always make the most sense. It really depends on what your profit is, what you can legally and ethically pay yourself as a reasonable compensation and what your your total picture is. Because with the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 and the birth of what's called the qualified business income deduction, some people call it the Section 109 deduction. That 20% deduction is a lot less for an S corp because you're getting it on the net income versus someone that's self employed. And then you also have compliance costs. Now you have to pay yourself. You're technically an employee of your own corp. So there's a lot of different, different things to consider. The one thing I do want to point out, since this is our Friends at Nahum's podcast, it's extremely disadvantageous, I guess you could say, to put real estate in an S corp 99.999% of the time. So what we like to usually see is let's say you have a profitable property management practice. We see a lot of them that are S corp's, and then you might buy an office building in a separate LLC and lease that to to the S corp that's in the S Corp could be an LLC. What happens a lot of times is as a client grows in profits, the LLC sometimes grows to a point where the S Corp election then makes sense. We have to make sure the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:12:36] So if I hear you right, in most cases when you're starting out, you should create some kind of LLC. Hopefully it's a multi-member which you get. You might get some tax benefits from that. And then as you grow over time, as you're talking to your tax strategist, we're going to talk about teaching taxable here in a second. As you talk to your tax strategist, there might be a time when it makes it the right move to create the election of the LLC to be taxed as an S corp. I got that right.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:13:06] Correct? I would if I'm getting started, I would form an LLC. If it's if you're the only member, you could be that single member LLC. But like you alluded to, if you have a business partner, do the multi member LLC and typically you're going to want to see how it goes before you make that's corporation election because the S Corp, there's a lot more compliance and there's a lot more. There are a lot more accounting considerations with that. So yeah.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:13:31] And All right, so go ahead. You got another point.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:13:35] One thing to consider with the S Corp is this You have once the LLC or the corporation is formed, you have 75 days from that point to elect to be taxed as an S corp. And you have 75 days into any year to choose to be elected to an S corp. So any let's say you and I had this multi-member LLC and we decide we're going to be an S Corp in 2023, we actually have until March 15th, assuming it's not a leap year, which I don't know if it is, but we have till March 15th of 2023 to to claim to be taxed as an S corp retroactive to January 1st, correct? Yeah.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:14:13] Okay. Oh, January 1st of that same year. So. So. Okay, I got it. But not for 2022. That that that after March 15th I'm taxed as, as a, as whatever I, I elected at that time. Yes.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:14:25] The ship has sailed. Now there are not to get into some other crazy stuff, but there are some revenue procedures and there's some relief for late filing, escort filing election. But in general, you are what you are for that previous year.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:14:40] So, Chris, you and I go back. We've we've probably known each other for close to ten years now since I joined. And you joined them. And, you know, we're business partner, business friends and we're friends. Friends now. We've kind of we've kind of over went over that line and we're like friends, friends now. And you and I speak quite often and a lot of mean a lot of times we're speaking about my tax situation. Right? So you were literally I'm using your services and you're coaching me. A lot of times I call you to like like just kind of talk to you about the Tennessee Titans. But then I then of course, I always throw in like 2 or 3 questions on on business, which and you're very gracious with your time, but most people don't have that. So you created the teaching tax flow. So tell, tell the, you know, our audience like what was the inspiration behind the teaching tax flow and what exactly is the teaching tax flow and and how can property managers and investors, you know, utilize that service?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:15:33] Right, right. And I guess depending on how the Titans are doing, it depends on when I have to transition to your taxes. So yeah.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:15:40] Lately it's pretty quick.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:15:42] Lately it's it was so so here's teaching tax flow is a passion project for me. In what? To take a step back. You're right. We had, we I started off over 20 years ago really focusing on, you know, on growing a CPA practice. But I built the practice based on me running it and not processes and. 12 years into it, I looked around and I saw that we had over 25 team members, seven permanent or seasonal offices, over 3000 clients. And what seems like a dream was really just a nightmare. I have. Two teenage children and a child that's nine years old right now. Honestly, the the the my oldest two children, the first five years of their life is a complete blur. And I feel a lot of guilt and regret about that. So I thought, okay, this is this is silly. I want to only focus So last decade now, as I'm only going to focus on real estate people, entrepreneurs, and I'm only going to do this on a membership based subscription business model that focuses on tax planning and strategy. That's it. And we so basically went through that process of transitioning over 90% of the clients. And I, I basically reborn, right? I hit reset and from that we were able to build a private practice in in to the point where we have ceased taking on new members to our private practice. That being said, what was born from it is some beautiful a process and a system for tax planning and strategy. And what I realized is that there's a huge need and there's a huge gap of people that don't have access to tax planning and strategies because they've been lied to. Um, and, and it's not, it's not.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:17:37] Their fault, their own CPA, right. A lot of CPAs don't understand tax planning and strategy. They, they just understand how to, how to do your your your straight taxes. Right.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:17:47] Right. And that's one of our laws of teaching tax flow is your tax return is a verb, not a noun. So but at the heart of it, I love to educate and I love to help people. So I thought, okay, this process, this proprietary process that we've created named teaching tax flow, I want to get this out there so that other people can enjoy it. And what teaching tax flow is, is the process that empowers you to defeat taxes. And it's built to complement and not replace tax preparation. That's that's what it is. And. We.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:18:19] So when we were in the green room, you talked about this like a four step process, about about tax planning, tax, tax planning, regardless of using teaching tax flow or not. So talk talk about that and how and how teaching tax helps you walk through that process.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:18:34] Exactly. And with teaching tax flow we have. So I started thinking, Pete, okay, over the last decade, why why have our techniques, which you may or may not be familiar with, some of them work so well and I thought I have to, instead of making that mistake of me running it, let's create the process to run it. And the process is diagnose. Prescribe. Iq test implement. So what that means is we use color coded diagnoses and teaching tax law based on your marginal tax rate. We teach people that marginal tax rate is more important than your tax bracket. We diagnose using color coded diagnoses, just like in the real estate market. You have a class B, class C class, right? When you're in that world, you know what that means. So we use red, green, purple, gold based on your marginal tax rate. And then we prescribe a tax strategy based on your diagnosis. And then we have something proprietary. We call the IQ test, which stands for identify, identify strategy, quantify result. Because we we want to make sure that the strategy you implement has a you're comfortable with it. You have the liquidity, you're qualified, and it has a positive tax influence. I'll give you an example. How many times do we see CPAs that, you know, people ask their CPA or tax professional, hey, should I do I get a deduction if I donate $1,000 to my church or synagogue? Yes, you get a deduction and thank goodness that you're benevolent.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:20:07] But the tax benefits, probably 20%. So you want to teaching tax law teaches is that you give $1,000, you get a 20% tax reduction. So you're still -$800. You should still get mean, be benevolent. But those are some of the things that we teach. It has to pass our IQ test and then we implement. And there's a lot of tax payers out there that we talk about. So one of the other laws is that tax agencies are your involuntary business partner. So the IRS is your business partner. They're my business partner. If you're listening to this in California, you have another big business partner, the state of California, California. So your business partner and you are in a partnership. You're not an LLC, but you're a partnership, and your business partner right now is picking your tax unless you do the proper planning. If you do the proper planning, you pick your tax. And that's what we teach. We teach people how to do that and we have obviously several different paths for them. Um.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:21:07] So in your, in your experience, what are some of the common tax strategies that people have used to lower their, their tax, their tax basis?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:21:16] Well, so the common ones, the aren't my favorite, by the way. The most common ones is to put money into a 401. K. Um, but yeah, but we teach that now. Now if you're high reg diagnosis. Then it might make sense. But we teach people the difference between tax free and tax deferred. And the most common mistake I see is that people getting started that are in a real low marginal tax rate that put money to tax deferred. And now you know this when you guys when you first start working at a big company, the HR person says put money in your retirement plan, which is not a bad move. But now look at the tax marginal tax rate you're in when you retire or now when you want to start enjoying that money versus then if they would have said put money into the Roth portion of your 401. K, you would have all that tax free. So those are just some of the. So the common ones talking. Let's just talk about the listener group. For many of the clients that I work with that are members and people in their network own real estate. So one of the most common would be a cost segregation study on any real estate that they own.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:22:27] That's a very common one. 90% of CPAs and tax professionals don't know what a cost segregation study is or they wouldn't know how to handle that. Right. Right. Okay. Um, which is and luckily within teaching tax flow, if you have a again, teaching tax flow is meant to complement, not replace your tax preparation. So but if you do have a tax professional that might not understand what a cost segregation is, we have what we call teaching tax flow blackbelts We have other tax professionals in our network that we've trained. They know how to handle that. So that's one of them. Pete The other one, you know, income, income shifting to related business entities. So let's say you do own that rental property and you can pay yourself rent legally and ethically. There are so many cool strategies we can use, especially as we see not only in property management but in the CPA world where we have multigenerational families or people selling their businesses. As you know, capital gains is taxed a lot less than ordinary income. So with capital gains that's taxed at a lower rate and you can you can invest that in opportunity zone funds. And then finally, for people, the 1031 exchange is another one that's used quite often.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:23:37] Yeah. Or just buy a big truck, Right. And so.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:23:41] Bonus depreciation. Yep. You must have been taking our teaching tax law courses, Pete. But yeah.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:23:47] I just have many conversations with you, buddy. Yeah.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:23:50] So buying fixed assets with bonus depreciation. Remember, the tax agencies are involuntary business partner. There are certain. There are what we teach and you're going to learn in teaching tax flow is that some behaviors are encouraged, some are discouraged. So that's what once you understand how the tax laws are written and we've broken these into really bite sized chunks, you're going to know how to what what actions to take.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:24:17] So as a property manager or owning a property manager firm, right. We have lots of investor clients and we always like referring our clients out to, oh, do you know an insurance guy? Right. And so we have our we have our network of people. So how can property managers show this service or use this as a tool in their toolbox to give to their their investor clients or even non investor clients? And then how can they use the service for themselves? Like talk a little bit. Right.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:24:48] So we have a partners program and the one that I think would called our Ambassadors program. And so the Ambassadors program is set up for business owners or influencers that believe in our brand, that want to share it with their network of people. And with the Ambassador program. Typically we're going to set up a URL for them. There'll be some revenue sharing for that Ambassador, and we're going to highlight we're going to create highlight the courses or the mini lessons or the the content that's specifically for for their customers. What I run into a lot is, especially with our friends, is that a lot of times and you can speak to this better than I can when you have someone that's starting to buy some properties, they're worried about their tax situation. They don't know what to do. They think it's going to get so complicated and we're or they out.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:25:42] They out. Typically what happens is they outgrow their CPA. Right? Like before I had before I had my properties, I had a CPA or an accounting person. And when I had a W-2 income and not much else, it was super simple to do. My even H&R Block can do it at that point. But as soon as I bought my my properties, you know, I realized that I kind of outgrew the person that I had. And I had to go find somebody that was real estate specific. Is that what you find as well?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:26:09] Absolutely. And so there's this huge gap between the people that either do their tax return themselves or they go to a lower cost provider. But if they want to start doing business with a firm that has the knowledge that we would that teaching tax law is going to share with you, it's going to be at least $5,000. So this is a great spot for the as far as the ambassador program for for members that want to. Provide some opportunity for their their owners that they're working with to learn. We have special courses on short term rental properties versus long term rental properties versus, like I said, costs. 1031 exchange rep status, material participation, all these buzzwords that they keep hearing that they they either have to that they're kind of stuck and they want to. So it's really there to help support them and teach people the benefits. I talked about tax agencies or involuntary business partner. There are a handful of industries that are tax advantaged. Real estate is in the top three. So let's that tells us that the tax code tells us that investing in real estate has tax advantages. You're you're taxed on your net income. You get the depreciation deduction. And when we can share that with the members to be able to share with their owners, that adds value for for them.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:27:33] All right, Chris, we're going to be right back. We got a quick commercial and then when we come back with the Lightning Round. All right. Hang around. A little nervous, I bet. We'll be right back, everybody. All right. Welcome back, everybody, for the.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:27:47] All right.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:27:48] Lightning Round. All right, Chris, I'm going to ask you a series of quick questions. Answer them quickly. If you do want to expand, go for it. But you just let's rapid fire these bad boys. You ready? Let's go. What is one thing that most people do not know about you? Rapid fire. Chris, that I'm an.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:28:08] Accountant, Believe it or not.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:28:10] Believe it or not. Really. All right. Well, most.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:28:12] Most people that meet me think. Are you sure you're an accountant? I'm like, you seem like you're a firefighter or police officer. I don't know if that's a compliment or what, but not sure it's a compliment.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:28:22] What? What Marvel or DC character do you most associate with?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:28:27] Superman.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:28:28] All right. What is your ideal vacation?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:28:32] Spending time with my family at our vacation home in Florida.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:28:36] What is one piece of advice you would give someone just starting out in business?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:28:42] Your network is your net worth? I know it's a cliche, but build out what we call your board of directors and focus on relationships and don't focus on sales.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:28:52] Does pineapple belong on pizza?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:28:54] Absolutely not. That's disgusting.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:28:58] What are you currently reading or what is one that you can recommend that has impacted your business or life?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:29:02] Yeah. Expert Secrets just finished it. Um. I highly recommend it.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:29:10] Other than an awesome podcast, what's another podcast that you recommend? Could be fun or business.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:29:16] There's only one teaching tax flow. There you go. Check us out on everywhere you get your podcasts or Lockdown Spartans. If you're a michigan State fan like me. Maybe that's the thing that people don't know about me, so.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:29:30] All right. What is one challenge you're currently facing in your business?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:29:37] Mhm.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:29:39] Training our staff and attracting young people in our profession.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:29:44] Oh yeah. What is the average age of a of an accountant these days? Oh, gosh.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:29:48] I mean, the average age. There's some demographics. The average age of a CPA is about 50 years old, and it's really.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:29:55] Property managers are about 50 years old, too. Yeah.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:29:58] Yeah, it's real scary. And one of my. What I'm. Well, it's scary. And I'm doing my best to get involve with the emerging professional networks and my home state of Tennessee and back in where I'm originally from in Michigan. So we need more young people that want to be CPAs.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:30:15] All right. What do you prefer, dogs or cats? Dogs. All right, Chris. If someone is interested in becoming an ambassador or creating content or, you know, want to get a affiliate link or to get to their network to help, you know, also like do a lunch and learn with you on this stuff for their network of individuals. Um, what, how, how what's the best way to do it?

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:30:39] Simply go to teaching text flow.com backslash partners.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:30:46] All right. And then any any email or phone number that they should they should know or is that the best way? The website.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:30:53] Oh hello. At teaching tax flow.com is probably the best way we're on and then the cool thing is on our or find us any you know we have the podcast we're all over social media as well but hello at teaching tax.com. We as you know we have we take a lot of pride in returning all communications within one business day.

 

Pete Neubig: [00:31:15] And if you are listening to this and you are not a member, but you do want to join because you get to meet cool people like me and Chris, go to Northam, dawg. Nah, dawg. Or you can call them at (800) 782-3452. And if you are looking for a virtual team member, a remote team member, international team member, however you want to call it a virtual assistant, please go to my website, VPM Solutions, VPM Virtual Property Management solutions.com or shoot me an email at Pete at VPM solutions.com. Thanks, Chris, for being here. Thank you everybody for listening. We'll see you next time.

 

Chris Picciurro: [00:31:57] Thank you so much. And it was an honor to be here.